Passage Finder

Passage Finder Role

Passage Finder Role: Pages 1-66

Julia Loewen

Passage 1:
"The thing that he was about to do was to open a diary. This was not illegal (nothing was illegal, since there were no longer any laws), but if detected it was reasonably certain that it would be punished by death, or at least by twenty-five years in a forced labour camp." (p. 8)

Discussion Point/Question:
Would it be possible for a country to function without laws? How can this government make people believe that there are no laws, when the people are fully aware that they could be killed for something as small as opening a diary?

Why I chose this passage:
It gives us the important information of how the government is run. There are no laws and yet there are countless little and big things the people are not allowed to do, and could be killed for.

Passage 2:
"All there ferocity was turned outwards, against the enemies of the state, against foreigners, traitors, saboteurs, thought-criminals. It was almost normal for people over thirty to be frightened of their own children." (p. 27-28)

Discussion Point/Question:
Do you think our world could ever become a place where parents are afraid of their own children? Why or why not?

Why I chose this passage:
It was surprising and thought provoking that parents could be afraid of their own children. It shows that parents did not really raise their own children, the government did.

Passage 3:
"You did not have friends now-a-days, you had comrades: but there were some comrades whose society was pleasanter than that of others." (p. 51)

Discussion Point/Question:
Can a society function with no family relationships (refer to last passage) and also no friendships?

Why I chose this passage:
I found it interesting and important that no true friendships existed. People must be very lonely, and if the support Big Brother, they must be deluded to think that life is better without true friendships.

Reactions by the group:
They agreed that the lack of relationships would make the world a miserable place, however, the government has so much control, and the people are so brain-washed and afraid that they do not believe anyone can do anything about it.

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Passage Finder Section 2               Chapter 6- Part 2, Pg. 66-111

Passage 1:                                                                           Page Number: 74
Quote: "Until they become conscious they will never rebel, and until after they have rebelled they cannot become conscious."

Discussion Point/ Question to Ask: What truth do these seemingly paradoxical ideas bring to light? How could the people ever hope to break this cycle they find themselves in?

Explanation for Why I Selected the Passage: It sums up a major idea present in the novel, the idea that the power rests in the people, if only they had the ability to utilize that power, unrestricted by what they do not know; until this cycle is broken, one cannot break free. What they need is a random variable that mutates in the cycle.

Passage 2:                                                                           Page Number: 75
Quote: "And even when they became discontented, as they sometimes did, their discontent led nowhere, because, being without general ideas, they could only focus it on petty specific grievances. The larger evils invariably escaped their notice."

Discussion Point/ Question to Ask: What would you imagine you would be like without your current education, living in the ignorance of the proles? Could you even imagine it?

Explanation for Why I Selected the Passage: It gives important distinction to the fact that education is important, that manipulation breeds in its absence, by those with more cultivated minds.

Passage 3:                                                                           Page Number: 83
Quote: "I understand HOW; I do not understand WHY."

Discussion Point/ Question to Ask: What do you think the ultimate goals of The Party are, beyond mere control?

Explanation for Why I Selected the Passage: It was an interesting thought he posed; you assume the government simply wants absolute authority, but when the author has the main character himself raise the question, you have to believe it is for a reason, and therefore come to the conclusion their is another level to the story.

Passage 4:                                                                           Page Number: 99
Quote: Anything old, and for that matter anything beautiful, was always vaguely suspect. The old man had grown noticeably more cheerful after receiving the four dollars. Winston realized that he would have accepted three or even two.

Discussion Point/ Question to Ask: How would you feel living in a world which did not believe in aesthetics, that beauty was not only not to be seen in other people, but also not anything around you, even ideas?

Explanation for Why I Selected the Passage: This is a good example of the consequences of controlling thoughts; without free, creative thought one could not even aspire to appreciate beauty through perspective, much less produce an original example of it.

Reactions by the Group to the Quotes Discussed:
Passage 1: They agreed that the power lies with the proles, and so to break this cycle their would need to be a moment in which the cycle could be broken, to start a new series of events. They also expressed the idea that since the author made the outlook so dismal, going about this task would be almost impossible.
Passage 2: They responded that they could not imagine not having an education, for by doing so they think through the standpoint of an educated person, therefore making it impossible, and contradictory.
Passage 3: Most of the group was stumped to think of alternatives immediately, but tentatively there was talk of what truly happened to the guests of Room 101, and if they were to be used for a goal other than fodder.
Passage 4: The group believed that such a world, one in which beauty was not admired, made one lose a part of oneself, limiting yourself in life. They believed admiring beauty in all its forms was one of the bases to the point of life, and that with out this creative, inspired thought was not possible.

-Allyson

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Section 3: Part 2, Chapters 1-8

Passage 1:
Page 113

"On it was written, In a large unformed handwriting:
                            I Love You"

Discussion Point: Why I love you? Besides the obvious reason that Julia has feelings for Winston, why would the first thing that Julia ever says to Winston be "I Love You" ?

Explanation: I chose this passage because this is the first form of contact that Winston and Julia have. I found it interesting that the first words that she ever says to him are I Love You. As a group we discussed that I Love You was a phrase that would catch Winston's attention heighten his curiosity about her. It was also discussed that because of the oppressive society they live in, there is no courtship, no dating, there's no room for any of that, so Julia is just forward about things.

Passage 2:
Page 132

"Listen. The more men you've had, the more I love you. Do you understand that?"
"Yes perfectly"
"I hate purity, I hate goodness"

Discussion Point: What does this passage say about Winston's morals? What role does his longing for revolution play into it?

Explanation: I chose this passage because it shows an immense amount about Winston's morals and what he believes. Our group discussed how Winston has such a hate for The Party, that his views and morals are tending to be the opposite of those of The Party. For instance, in the case of purity and goodness, The Party is trying to make what they think is a good/working towards a perfect society, and in turn, Winston says that he hates purity and goodness.

Passage 3:
Page 153

"'Oranges and lemons' say the bells of St. Clements .
'You owe me three farthings' say the bells of St. Martens .
Here comes a candle to light you to bed
Here comes the chopper to chop off your head"

Discussion Point: This passage is one that comes up multiple times in the novel, getting added to a little more each time it comes up. Why do you think it keeps presenting itself?

Explanation: This rhyme (that in full, references to all the churches in London) keeps coming up in the novel, which means there is some significance to it. Our group talked about how its Winston's link to the past, the thing he carries around with him to remind him of the past. It also is a reminder to winston about his rebellion against the party.

-Evan

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Section 4 pg 174-234
By Katie

Passage 1: pg 176 "As O'Brien passed the telescreen a thought seemed to strike him. He stopped, turned aside and pressed a switch on the wall. There was a sharp snap. The voice had stopped."

Discussion Point: Why do you think the inner party members can turn the telescreen off?

Explanation: I chose this passage because for the first time we find out that the telescreen can be turned off, whereas before it seemed that for others it was forever on. Also we see how high up in the party O'Brien really is.

Reaction by Group Members: They thought that because these people are so involved with the party and have power that they wouldn't want to even think about betraying the party and also wouldn't know what to do without the party. but at the same time are probably not as brainwashed as the lower members of society and do have the power to cause a rebellion, like O'Brien is.

Passage 2: pg 197 "If the machine were used deliberately for that end; hunger, overwork, dirt, illiteracy and disease could be eliminated within a few generations."

Discussion Point: Do you think this could ever actually happen in real life? Do you think it could happen without someone controlling the society?

Explanation: I chose this because it was an exert from Goldstien's book and is what is said to be what Big brother was trying to accomplish in the beginning.

Reaction by Group Members: They thought that this could never happen fully in our society but we could get closer to being this way. Also no matter what our society is doing there's always going to be someone trying to control and running it.

Passage 3: pg 208 "'I've got the book', he said as they disentangled themselves. 'oh, you've got it? Good,' she said without much interest and almost immediately knelt down beside the oil stove to make the coffee."

Discussion Point: How would you feel in Julia's situation if you had your belief system changed as well as being placed in an unwanted position due to love?

Explanation: I chose this passage because it really shows the generation gap between Winston and Julia. Winston was young when Big Brother came into power so he knows a little bit of what life was like before, whereas Julia only knows the society right now. We see a big difference of the parties impact on people between the years.

Reaction by Group Members: The group agreed that it would be a hard and confusing time, but thought that Julia's belief system didn't change that much because she's not really wholeheartedly in on the brotherhood like Winston is. The group had mixed judgments on whether or not their relationship is love or not but agreed that they have a more love like relationship than before and were unsure if it Julia was in an unwanted position or not.

Sylvana - Passage Finder

"He fell asleep murmuring sanity is not statistical with the feeling that this remark contained and it's a profound meaning."

What do you think that this could mean?

In our group we discussed this as meaning that things are not objectively true or false. Just because everyone else says something is true or false doesn't make it true or false. Like Winston asserted that 2 plus 2 is four and not five like the Party said.

"The best books, he perceived, are those that tell you what you already know."

Do you think this statement true?

On the one hand we agreed with the statement,  because when you don't know anything about what you're reading you can become confused which is undesirable and  reading for affirmation is sometimes what people want, but on the other hand learning new things is also interesting. And learning new ideas and developing your mind to become more informed can also make for a very good                                             read. 

"Mr. Charrington was still wearing his old velvet jacket, but his hair, which had been almost white, had turned black. Also he was not wearing his Spectacles."

Do you think that Mr. Charrington really changed in appearance or do you think it was more of a perceived change by Winston in this section of the book? 

We thought it was a perceived change mostly because before Mr. Charrington wasn't viewed as a threat by Winston,  he was just an old man that owns the shop he didn't  have any control he was just one of the stupid Proles. But when Winston found out that he was a Thought  Police and had authority and power, and when Winston became afraid of.

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Section 5 - Part 3 (237-311)
Beth Larmand

Passage 1: Exactly. By making him suffer. Obedience is not enough. Unless he is suffering, how can you be sure that he is obeying your will and not his own? Power is inflicting pain and humiliation. Power is in tearing human minds to pieces and putting them together again in new shapes of your own choosing. (279)

Discussion Point: What is true power? How does their power work so efficiently? How does this relate to other communist countries in the world today?

Explanation: This sections of the novel talks a lot about power. It is interesting to see how their power is fueled by hate, fear, pain and humiliation. So as a first instinct I thought to myself ‘these people should just stop fearing. It’s like a bully, they only get their power from other people volunteering their emotions.’ But as the sections continued, we see that everyone has a breaking point, and this corrupt society has found the breaking point of all the people. I just found it so interesting what people perceive power is. We see even today that this system of governing works, but there are so many better ways that involve a happy leader with joyful and honorable followers who choose to follow someone. I figure that type of control would be more rewarding.

Passage 2: ‘You asked me once…. What was in Room 101, I told you that you knew the answer already. Everyone knows it. The thing that is in Room 101 is the worst thing in the world.’ (296)

Discussion Point: What is your biggest fear? What would you give up to get away from it? Can you relate to Winston’s reaction to all the torture and Room 101?

Explanation: I was really intrigued as to what Winston was going to face in Room 101, but when I found out it was rats, I was really disappointed. Sure rats are scary, but they are not that bad. He had just gone through months or years of mental and physical torture, and he was scared of rats. But I found this as an ‘aha’ moment, I sure my biggest fears are not something many people are afraid of. I just really connected to how human this reaction of Winston’s was. The selfishness of doing whatever it takes to survive really is what anyone would do. The Inner Party really got their torture ways right. If I was in that circumstance, I would love to say I would keep my ground and not give anyone or information up, but I truly cannot say that.

Passage 3

And perhaps you might pretend, afterwards, that it was only a trick and that you just said it to make them stop and didn't really mean it. But that isn't true. At the time when it happens you do mean it. You think there’s no other way of saving yourself and you’re quite ready to save yourself that way. You want it to happen to the other person. You don’t give a damn what they suffer. All you care about is yourself. (305)

Discussion Point:What do you think Julia was in Julia’s 101? It took Winston a long time to ‘rat’ her out do you think she really turned him in right away?

Explanation: I really liked how there was one last glimpse at Julia’s life after being though all the torture. I think it is really interesting that they shared an encounter. It’s almost like a couple who went through a messy break up and have an awkward meet up. But Julia and Winston, it goes past sexual tension, but more of their minds and being conditioned to hate the other person. I also picked this because out of all the things that Julia ever said or did, this was the most insightful and intelligent. It shows how much she was changed. The truth of her comes out as well, talking about how all you care about under torture – or basic living as she alludes to – is yourself and making sure you are never the weakest link.